[shuttertalk]

This one is a rumour but supposedly "a good rumour from a known source". It's quite timely given the discussion about the artifical separation between FF and APS-C.

http://www.canonrumors.com/2012/07/canon...amera-cr2/

Anyway, supposedly there's a entry level Full Frame camera being added to Canon's lineup in the Fall. The sensor is supposed to be the same as the 5D mark 3 but the rest of the specs are close to the current 7D, especially the AF system.

22mp (Same sensor as 5D3)
19 AF Points
4fps
ISO 100-51200
3″ LCD
Smaller than the 5D Mark II
More Plastic than metal in the construction
Pop-Up Flash (On at least one prototype)
$1999 USD at launch
Launched with a new non-L full frame kit lens (Undisclosed what the lens is)
Compatible with full frame STM lenses

I'm very interested to see how this turns out. If this is true then it would make a lot of FF converts where price was once a barrier, and there might be less of a incentive to go the 5D3 route if all you are getting is nicer weather sealing.

[Pavel]

The biggest issue for me, a recent convert to FF is the lenses. You need lenses that support full frame and ideally lenses that make good use of the resolution pf the camera. Using APS-C lenses on FF is a crutch but I am using it some of the time. Most of my lenses are no match for the resolution of the D800 but I have no plans to replace them with better but very expensive ones. As a result, I do not derive full benefit from the camera I have. Still, the image quality with full frame lenses is very noticeably improved compared to D300 and there are other benefits (like larger and brighter, more usable viewfinder, better dynamic range, greater light sensitivity, greater flexibility and precision in exposure metering, a lot less background noise, creamy areas with similar tonality and low detail). Still, the lenses are the single greatest deterrent, I think

[NT73]

I will agree with you there, re lenses, but what do you get when you are an entry level peep. What you can afford. If you can afford L glass all the way round then the camera price is chicken feed.
Unless you can make money from it, and going back to someone who is entry level, there is a lot to learn.

Now my problem is age. I don't know if I would get full value from a 5DIII or an 800D
I don't know how long I have got left. Can you take them with you.
Come on angel just a bit more leg.

[Pavel]

NT, my problem is the age two. That is why I am not going to upgrade my lenses. If I was younger, I would slowly replace the lenses I have over time. I still get a great bang from the D800 with my lenses. Nikon and probably Canon will have something with most of the capability of D800 but at a lower price. If I was a patient man, I would wait for one of those (D400 ? or D600 ? in the Nikon world). D800 is expensive, but it is a hell of a camera. It is my last DSLR. It has all I ever wanted out of a camera, except the weight of the camera and lenses. That is why over time my wife and I will build up around micro4/3. My wife will be the primary/only user of that for now and over time, I will add another body and join her.

[NT73]

I reckon you are younger than me. When I was born I started WW2

[Pavel]

I started the Hungarian uprising at the age of 7

[matthew]

The sensor is supposed to be the same as the 5D mark 3 but the rest of the specs are close to the current 7D, especially the AF system.
…
I'm very interested to see how this turns out. If this is true then it would make a lot of FF converts where price was once a barrier, and there might be less of a incentive to go the 5D3 route if all you are getting is nicer weather sealing.

That's an interesting comparison, because from where I stand the 5D3 looks a lot like a 7D with the 5D2 sensor and the 1Dx autofocus. So a 7D with a 5D3 sensor and a 7D autofocus would likely need the 5D2 or 60D's build quality to give it sufficient market differentiation. Not that market differentiation is a huge concern for Canon, what with their blurred lines between the 500D, 550D, 600D, 650D, 60D, and 7D…

But the camera companies do their best to stay competitive: since Nikon has rumours of a midrange FX camera, Canon needs rumours of a matching model.

I certainly see a lot of reasons to believe that there's a midrange FX Nikon coming – lenses like the 24-85 and 28-300 don't make much sense otherwise. And Canon has too much of a gap between the 7D and 5D3 to not fill it with something, and the 5D2 won't last forever. So hopefully we'll have a couple of new cameras by Photokina.

[shuttertalk]

You guys... when I was born I started The Beatles... lol.

[shuttertalk]

More rumours and speculation here:
http://www.petapixel.com/2012/08/10/cano...l-october/

The main one is that the new "entry level" full frame camera will be tagged as the 6D - so it would sit between the pro level 5D Mark III and the APS-C king 7D.

Another dubious theory is that this full frame camera would replace the 7D (or rather the 7D Mark II would be full frame) and then the next gen 60D replacement (70D?) would become the flagship APS-C camera.

Time will tell I guess - they're pegging the announcement to be in October.

[NT73]

More info. and photos.

http://www.technobaboy.com/2012/07/23/ca...e-release/

No evf, unless you pay extra?

If Carlsberg did a mirrorless camera it would have an evf, wouldn't it.
-------------------- ---------------------
edit.
Whoops this may be something different. Just seen it is July info and it's now August.

[shuttertalk]

Hey Ray, the one you've posted about is slightly different - it's for the new mirrorless camera which Canon has already officially announced. See here:
http://www.shuttertalk.com/forums/Thread...ens-Camera


This thread is talking about the still rumoured Full Frame DSLR...

[Pavel]

who needs Canons anyway, when there are good cameras around?

[shuttertalk]

who needs Canons anyway, when there are good cameras around?

Ooo.. them's fightin' words...

Since you're flinging mud...
http://www.shuttertalk.com/forums/Thread...1#pid83431

[NT73]

Hey Ray, the one you've posted about is slightly different - it's for the new mirrorless camera which Canon has already officially announced. See here:
http://www.shuttertalk.com/forums/Thread...ens-Camera


This thread is talking about the still rumoured Full Frame DSLR...

Must have seen a wrong link . Sorry.

[Pavel]

who needs Canons anyway, when there are good cameras around?

Ooo.. them's fightin' words...

HTC and Apple phones will leave all fancy cameras on the scrap heap of history (paraphrasing Nikita Chrushchev slightly)

[Kombisaurus]

ummm... isn't the 5D2 the "new" budget FF Canon DSLR?

They are still being sold new, they fill the price gap between 7D and 5D3, and they fill the specs gap nicely too.
Why does Canon need to develop a new model to fill exactly the space that the 5D2 has slotted into since the 5D3 was released?

I'm not saying that Canon aren't developing a new model, just that everyone seems to forget you can already go out and buy a brand-new 21mp FF Canon DSLR for under $2k already.

[shuttertalk]

True Adrian, although the 5d2 is getting a bit long in the tooth. I may be wrong but even when it was released the AF module was already 1 generation behind.

[Kombisaurus]

You're right Jules. And that "old model" mentality is currently the biggest problem I see holding the 5D Mark II back. Nobody wants to buy an old model. While the AF is the 5D Mark II's achillies' heel and it makes sense to address it's biggest complaint, if it had better AF then it would start to take sales away from the 5D Mark III (which is double the price). If my Mark II had even 7D AF performance then I wouldn't have been so quick to jump on the Mark III bandwagon.

It's almost like Canon need to re-release the 5D Mark II as a new model (perhaps with a pop-up flash and new firmware, like the v2 firmware being released for the 7D) and call it the "5D Mark II, Mark II". If they are going to improve the AF and make it a whole new model then they'll need to do something to "cripple" it to prevent pros from choosing one over the 5D Mark III. Something like a small, dark, sub-par viewfinder would probably do the trick.

[shuttertalk]

More rumours as we get closer to the announcement.
http://www.petapixel.com/2012/09/14/cano...price-tag/

The camera will reportedly feature a 20.2 megapixel CMOS sensor, the DIGIC5+ image processing engine, an ISO range of 100-25600 (expandable to 50-102400), a small body (the size of an APS-C sensor camera), a magnesium alloy built (some parts, at least), built-in Wi-Fi (wow), built-in GPS, 11 autofocus points, 4.5fps continuous shooting, a shutter rated for 100,000 actuations, 1/180 second sync, shutter speed that ranges from 30s to 1/4000s, weatherproofing, a 3-inch LCD screen, and 1080p HD video recording.

Once again the rumoured price tag is surprising - approx $2500 means it's way above what APS-C users are used to spending and not quite "budget" after all.

[shuttertalk]

Ok so the announcement is out:

http://www.petapixel.com/2012/09/17/cano...rame-dslr/

Here are the specs according to dpreview:
- 20.2MP full frame CMOS sensor
- DIGIC 5+ image processor
- ISO 100-25600 standard, 50-102800 expanded
- 4.5 fps continuous shooting
- 'Silent' shutter mode
- 1080p30 video recording, stereo sound via external mic
- 11 point AF system, center point cross-type and sensitive to -3 EV
- 63 zone iFCL metering system
- 97% viewfinder coverage; interchangeable screens (including Eg-D grid and Eg-S fine-focus)
- 1040k dot 3:2 3" ClearView LCD (fixed)
- Single SD card slot
- Built-in Wi-Fi and GPS
- Single-axis electronic level

I'm somewhat surprised by where they've placed this model. I think they've made a clear upgrade path where XXXD and XXD APS-C users would go to the 6D, whereas 7D users would go to the 5D Mark III. However, for those with say a 7D, the key features actually seem like a step backwards - in particular the number of AF points / Cross-Type AF points, viewfinder magnification and coverage, lack of AF illumination. It also doesn't seem much of an upgrade over the 5D Mark II, which is currently cheaper.

Compared to the competition, i.e. the Nikon D600, it really seems like a weak offering. I suppose the designers lacked a crystal ball, but kudos to Nikon for delivering some really knockout offerings with the D800 and D600. One reviewer put it as "Nikon seems to have taken the approach of taking away as little as possible from D800 when creating the D600, Canon appears almost to have gone the other way, removing as much as it thinks it can get away with at the price. The result is the kind of conservative, slightly unimaginative design that's become the company's hallmark".

The new features though such as GPS and WIFI sound interesting. The ability to transfer photos wirelessly and control via IOS/Android devices is definitely the way forward.

[slejhamer]

Compared to the competition, i.e. the Nikon D600, it really seems like a weak offering. I suppose the designers lacked a crystal ball, but kudos to Nikon for delivering some really knockout offerings with the D800 and D600. One reviewer put it as "Nikon seems to have taken the approach of taking away as little as possible from D800 when creating the D600, Canon appears almost to have gone the other way, removing as much as it thinks it can get away with at the price. The result is the kind of conservative, slightly unimaginative design that's become the company's hallmark".

This guy thinks the D600 is not quite 'all that':
http://strobist.blogspot.com/2012/09/nik...-jump.html

But yeah, for Canon this is just more of the same, nothing innovative. The competition is coming on strong and Canon is resting on its laurels, imho. Have been for years.