[Don Schaeffer]

Of course this discussion was quickly erased before. But the issue for me remains. I am quickly losing interest in this forum. The spirit of community has vanished. I get the feeling that my posts are simply discounted and have no confidence in the sense of warmth and community that kept this place alive in my mind before.

I will tell you all I do find Shuttertalk handy as an upload place because the software used here is very good. I can use the addresses in my uploads to quickly link to other sites.

The reason I post on any forum at my age and under my circumstances is that I need community recognition and support. I know it's taboo to mention it, but that's the way I feel. It is not coming from Shuttertalk any more. I don't feel anyone is particulary interested in my comments about their photos either. It's all so automatic and sterile.

There i said it.

--Don

[jericho]

Don,

Ever noticed that if you rub a spot, it feels great at first. Then it begins to become less interesting the longer you rub it. Your style is unique. However, people can only comment for so long before its not "new and unique" anymore.

Sometimes I get the feeling you just post pictures, and a lot of them, without much thought. You get what you give.

I personally don't find your pictures interesting. Doesn't mean they aren't artistic or very interesting to other people. Just not my style. I tried for a long time to get some sort of meaningful feedback and conversation going with you, but ran out of patience.

This remains a community forum, with some of the most interesting and thoughtful people on the web. For the first time, I have a genuine interest in someday meeting a good portion of the people on here. The fact that you don't receive a copius dose of recognition is very short sighted. Is that why you take pictures?

Is the fact that people are not commenting on your stuff, causing you to lose interest in this forum?????? Maybe its time you re-evaluated this lifelong hobby. Some of my most popular pictures are ones I think very little of. My favourites are usually mine alone. I take pictures because it allows me to get outside, enjoy the moment and capture moods, feelings, emotions and moments. The fact that I share them with all of you is just a bonus.

There.... I said it.

[Toad]

Sigh...

Everybody likes to have their work commented on - most people prefer to have positive comments to negative ones - that is only human nature.

Usually I comment on photos for one of 3 reasons:

1. I like it a lot
2. I see a subtle improvement that can make it much better
3. I am encouraging a newbie that I think has talent but needs some guidance

I don't comment on shots for one of these reasons:

1. I am indifferent to the shot - I see very few photos that I "hate"
2. I am too busy
3. Its all been said already
4. I think the photographer will get angry about it

We had a lot of discussion here about "nice" posts - I still do them, but I try to do it less. That makes me post less comments - because I don't have time to do detailed anlysis of every photo.

Like Don, my stuff tends to be more figurative than literal - as such - I don't expect everybody to like them, and sometimes I have posted personal favorites to silence. That's life.

At the end of the day, that's not really why I take pictures. But I do understand the frustration associated with not getting much feedback. As a result, I tend to post significantly fewer shots than I used to - and be more selective about what I post.

I don't think that the forum has become harder or more judgemental - quite the opposite in fact - but maybe our expectations have increased.

Just my $.02.

[Petographer]

I never thought I'd ever say this to anyone before but it seems like what you need Don is to take some time away from the computer or at least posting on any forums for a while. I think it is getting stale for you. Maybe get involved with a camera club where you live. Concentrate on your poems a little more. Bottom line is if you are not finding any happiness in the things that you do or things that you surround yourself in life it is 100% up to you to make the changes necessary. These issues have come up time and time again and each time there has been nothing but support for the way you feel but it has come to the point where I feel you are beating a dead horse. I sincerely hope you can create some happiness for yourself in regards to your picture taking.

[EnglishBob]

My post would pretty much mirror toads, I'm busier and have less free time, as such I still check the forums 3-4 times a day and read every post, I don't however comment very often unless it is a picture I really like or I have an answer to a question.

[Don Schaeffer]

Thanks for your comments. You may be right.
I do love to take pictures. Many people really like them and like my slide shows. I think we are at cross purposes now. You are tired of me.You guys just seem to have no taste for what I do. I will disappear for a time and pay you visit, perhaps in a few months.

To be honest, I think this forum is in trouble if it can't attract more people like me. It has become a cozy private club.


--Don

[jericho]

Time away is often a good thing. Refreshes the mind.

[Toad]

Don:

I think you are letting your ego get in the way here. You are the first to acknowledge that your style is unique - ergo - not to everybody's tastes. You also publish a lot of photos - sometimes several a day.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I suspect that Shuttertalk is a far more supportive environment than any other forum that you publish on - for example, I have heard you complain bitterly about Photosig.

As you know, I have been a supporter of yours for years - before Shuttertalk even, but I honestly feel that your expectations with regard to getting substantitive feedback, given the volume of your posts, are unrealistic. Nobody has that much time - on a forum with hundreds of active members - the volume might make up for that - but you might also get a lot of criticism that you don't want as well.

You also get what you put in - I have noticed that you comment on only a small fraction of the photos other people post. Perhaps you feel those other photos are unworthy of comment. What goes around come around.

I am not going to try to talk you into staying or talk you into leaving. I myself take hiatuses from web sites and from posting photos - frankly it clears the mind and makes you reevaluate what is important to you.

Rufus leaves Shuttertalk because he wants harder criticism, but flames anybody who disagrees with him. You leave because you think we have gotten hard and critique-oriented, and then complain about Shuttertalk being a cozy club. Can't please anybody, I guess.

If you are bored or just want to move on because you are not getting what you need - that is your call. However, both you and Rufus imply that making this decision somehow reflects a deficiency in the characters of the other members.

And that is what I disagree with.

[Rufus again]

No deficiency.

In fact the biggest difference is in tolerance. I have very little.
However, I am now ready to return, should that be permissable.
I wish private dialogue with moderators if possible, plus a few others.

Yes, I'm a moaner, but only 'cos I want change. Change is good...........Mostly.

So, can I come back now? Currently I'm banned, you see................................... :o

[jericho]

I hope everyone is welcome here. As an original member its nice to see your face Ruf.

In time everyone will come back. At least we all agree this is one of the best places to hang one's hat. Thanks again Jules for hosting such a great place.

J

[Polly]

No deficiency.

In fact the biggest difference is in tolerance. I have very little.
However, I am now ready to return, should that be permissable.
I wish private dialogue with moderators if possible, plus a few others.

Yes, I'm a moaner, but only 'cos I want change. Change is good...........Mostly.

So, can I come back now? Currently I'm banned, you see................................... :o

You got banned!! :o

I wondered where you were!

Oh dear :/

That's terrible! I'm shocked! :o


Pol

[Rufus again]

Hello Jerry.
Pleasure to "see" you once again. Been a while. huh?

[Rufus again]

Pol!! You beauty!!!

[Rufus again]

I mis-spelt permissible. Sorry.

[Polly]

Pol!! You beauty!!!

I know.

I've been away haing a face-lift, a few nips and tucks and a couple of implants.

that's as in Teeth ... not 'those!'

I did it because I was very hurt when i wanted invited to model for Jamies 'Sass and Steel calendar'

Pol

[guerito]

Hi Rufus!

Irma and I would like very much to see you back in the forum.

Ever since you were gone, nobody has growled at my cat pictures. How boring.

[Don Schaeffer]

I'm glad people are finding this thread useful. That's a relief, I thought it would be a quickie and no one really cared.

I want to explain I'm not quibbling about getting fewer comments than anyone else although I don't like being ignored altogether when others get 5 and 6 comments every time. I am glad to have a place to put my photos where there are friends around to see them.

I just had a feeling that there irreconcilable differences here--something very deep that was narrowing the focus of the forum and driving me out (and perhaps others). It was like being in a club and not being able to sit with the others at the main table.

This place used to be a homey, kind, civilized forum where you could get some encouragement. It has become something colder. It begins to resemble photosig (but in photosig I never expect anything different).

I have great affection for Shuttertalk. It was wonderful when you guys found me and invited me to join a year or so ago. But the tone has changed--and it's not because the quality of photography has changed and standeard have gotten higher--that's silly.

--Don

[Kombisaurus]

Don,

I'm not quite sure what it is you expect from the people on this forum, and what it is that "we" (ie everyone here) is doing that is so wrong?

I understand what you mean when you say one of the reasons for using forums such as shuttertalk is to get some support and build an "online family" so to speak. And I think shuttertalk is much better than most forums in this regard.
Which is why I find it quite strange that you are critical towards pretty much everyone here, as if there is some conspiricy to ignore you.

If there is no "sense of warmth" as you say and no "spirit of community", then how do you plan on reversing that trend? Instead of being critical of everyone not being warm and distancing yourself from everyone as you seem to be doing, why not praise those who ARE being warm and why not be warm and positive and supportive yourself? Why not take the initiative and treat others as you'd like them to treat you in the hope you will perhaps change their behaviour?
You are an intergral part of the community Don, and as such are just as responsible for its "warmth" and "spirit" as any other person here. If you don't support the community, why should it support you? And if you DO support the community, then I'm sure you'll end up with nothing to complain about.

Nobody is trying to push you away or ignore you, but as others have said, you post a lot of photos! You acknowledge that your photos aren't to everyone's taste, so what exactly should people write? "I'm indifferent towards this shot"?
Personally, I comment on those photos I see of yours which spark my interest in some way, but usually I won't post a response if I feel that I can't add anything to the conversation. I also think that posting more photos will not induce more of a response, but rather will spread whatever response you do get more thinly.
I'm very supportive of your photography as I have said numerous times, but a lot of your stuff isn't to my taste. I'm sure a lot of my stuff isn't to your taste either, that's just the way it goes. Complaining about it won't change that.
I think that you are probably right when you say that many people here don't have a taste for what you do... but your response to this seems to be simply to increase the number of photos you post. I'm sure many advertising executives will disagree with me, but I don't think increased exposure necessarily makes people like what they see more. So the more photos you post the "louder the silence" might seem to be and the more frustrating it might be for you.
Perhaps if you were more selective about the photos you posted and then took the time to explain your work in the post, it would appeal to more people (ie Me). I'm not just talking about the specific time/place type of explanations, but the motivation for each shot, what you were trying to achieve and the significance of the photo.
I *want* to appreciate your work more than I currently do, but I think we see the world quite differently to each other and unfortunately I can't read your mind... so some written guidance would be really helpful.

I should also point out that reading Toad mention that "you comment on only a small fraction of the photos other people post" sparked my interest. I felt that I have commented on significantly more of your photos than you have on mine (and my posts tend to be quite in-depth), and a quick glance over the threads started by me that you have contributed to compared to those started by you that I have contributed to strongly supports this theory. I can't speak for others here, but clearly I'm commenting on more of your photos than you are on mine. Again, that comes back to the fact that you get out what you put into the forum.

If you feel that things are getting stale and you are losing interest at the moment, perhaps the previous suggestions about taking a break are good ones? Maybe a break will revitalise your interest in photography and shuttertalk? Maybe it won't?
I am in no way trying to push you away, but from my own experience I have often found I've gotten a lot more enjoyment out of photography after a bit of a break.

I'm a bit puzzled about why you might be so negative towards this forum.
I'm just grateful for all the great advice and inspiration I've gotten from the people here in the relatively short time I've been here... when you consider all the positive things I've gotten from here, the very small number of negative things just vanish into insignificance.

The glass is half full Don, why not just relax and enjoy it?

[Don Schaeffer]

I'm a **** disturber, Kombi. I don't like peace.

--Don

[ed: Please refrain from swearing in these forums]

[Petographer]

I'm a **** disturber, Kombi. I don't like peace.

--Don

What kind of reply is that? C'mon Don. Smarten up please.

[guerito]

Don:

I can only speak for myself, so this is certainly not the official forum opinion. For myself I have to say that I'm bearing a grudge against you since the discussion you had with Rufus.

In my opinion. your command of words is much better than that of your camera. After all, you write poems. So I suppose you know what you're doing when you're posting.

Your contributions to the forums are often short, they often sound sarcastic to me, and sometimes they are not really understandable at all, which for me results in the feeling that you took the mickey out of me, but I can't be sure, of course. Here is an example of what I mean. If there is a joke hidden in there, I missed it completely. In other cases, your comments are very very short. "Nice macro". What do you expect as a reply? "Yes that's why I posted it"?

As for me commenting on your pictures, I sort of gave up. Most, if not all of your pictures convey only a somewhat depressing bitterness, not strong enough to shake me up but strong enough for me to get bored. To me, it seems you live in world bereft of beauty. I pity you if this is true, and I also pity you if this is just the way your pictures come out. If this is not intentional, why don't you ask in the forum for ideas to improve your pictures? Everybody here calls it "art" and "personal style", but is it really? Maybe. I'm just a beginner and don't know anything of art.

Anyway, this is just me. Kombi, Toad, Peto and Jerry said it all already, really.

[Don Schaeffer]

It is me, Guerto. My pictures are me and the way I've always lived. I think that's what photography does, it documents life. I'm sorry I can't be happier for you. So you get bored by my photos. That's ok. We would probably not be friends.

My comments have degraded with time because I saw no point. I've seen so many photos of spiders and pretty flowers and cute animals. My world doesn't look like that at all. There's nothing I can say about them. They are all wonderful, bright, well focussed. We can fuss about a crop here or there. But if you have a good lens and you point it at a good subject, the photos get stamped out.

I am a rank amateur photographer. I have no bones about it. My equipment is mediocre. The sum total of my photography documents my life at the end of my middle age in my city. You guys are so tired of me that you don't even see the variation in my photos any more and I can't defend them.

I could try to stick to posting the most optmistic and sunniest pictures I have but I don't expect much.

--Don

PS, what did I say to Rufus that makes you so angry. I can always apologize.