[Drunkentre]

Hi.
I have a problem. I'm a big ignorant in the sense that i bought an EOS 350D and expected super high quality images.

I'm still playing with it and learning how to use it my way, but i'm finding now that my pictures are coming out grainy.

Here's an example of the sun set i took from my brother's bedroom window this evening



and here's what it looks like at 100%



I've noticed this happens with a lot of my pictures and it's bugging me because on my camera screen, pictures look fine, i walk away and then realise it looks like crap.

My settings:



I'm not a happy dude!

[matthew]

I'm not familiar with the camera -- many people here are, so I'll leave the specifics to them -- but I do know noise. (I'll show you an ISO3200 image from my E-1 some time.) But, I'm wondering about your JPG compression, both in-camera and when you resaved the image to post here.

I see compression artifacts and colour posterization, but not a lot of noise. However, each camera is different... I defer to those with proper experience.

What is your desired output medium - web, small prints, large prints...?

[Drunkentre]

Idealy, i'd like to do large prints. I just bought an Epson R1800 large format printer and i'd like to take some 1/2 decent pictures and print them, but the grain or noise is depressing me.

The image quality is set to Large fine - i'm not sure about actual jpeg compression settings on the camera. When i resaved, i put it as 10 rather than 12, but the difference between the two is beyond minimal.

[Irma]

Do you post process your pictures? If so, what program do you use?

Sometimes it happens the same to me along the post processing... specially when I try to correct the exposure or brighten them up...

[Drunkentre]

Nope, just view the jpeg straight from the memory card.
I havent started with Photoshop on my photos yet. I'd like to be able to take good pictures without the aid of programs, although it's looking less and less possible as time goes on

[Petographer]

At 200 iso you shouldn't have a problem with noise. Even shooting with at 1/80 sec it wouldn't hurt to use a tri-pod. What I see in your photo isn't a noise issue but rather camera shake or a focus issue. Focus is going to be difficult when it is dark. Any noise would be more noticeable at at higher iso settings but even 400 is great for low noise with your camera. Also I'd like to add that noise will be more noticeable in dark or black areas of the image. Instead of a 100% crop of the red sky you should see noise easier by a 100% crop of the black area. If you really want to see the noise levels at different iso settings go out during the day and take photos of the clear blue sky. Sun on your back. You will then see what I mean.

[matthew]

From your settings, it doesn't look like it's compression artifacts -- too bad, that's easy to solve... I still think you're looking at colour posterization, not noise.

Idealy, i'd like to do large prints. I just bought an Epson R1800 large format printer and i'd like to take some 1/2 decent pictures and print them, but the grain or noise is depressing me.

You know, printing images can actually be a lot more forgiving than monitor displays. For one thing, I see that you're using the "sRGB" colour space; try changing to "Adobe RGB" or ProPhoto RGB if your camera supports it. sRGB was designed for the web and monitor display, but it holds fewer colours and isn't ideal for printed output. Then, try printing a few -- both 'bad' and 'good' examples -- and see how they look on paper. You might be pleasantly surprised.

Here's an excellent reviewer's take on the 350's noise characteristics: http://www.photozone.de/8Reviews/dslr/ca.../noise.htm

There is a series of images taken across the ISO range, so you can compare your results.
How do your other photos look, especially ones with less vibrant colours?

Here's what I think of when someone says they have a grainy picture:



That's a 50% detail crop from a photo I took a week ago, with no effort to reduce the noise and no post-processing of any kind. The settings are 1/90s at f3.5, so they're roughly comparable to yours... except I was shooing into a shadow at iso3200. Naturally, I'm not planning on doing a poster-sized print and putting it in a gallery, but it meets my needs.

[Drunkentre]

Thanks everyone for your help.

I was wondering about changing the mode from sRGB to Adobe RGB, but i'll give that a try and see what tonight's sunset can provide me with.

What my problem is at the moment is, i'm going to Thailand and Hong Kong early next year, and i want to take pictures of everything. I wont have a PC out there of my own to view pictures on, and i dont want to come home and get depressed because my images have come out hazy or foggy looking.
I'm wondering if maybe i should splash out on some 1GB cards and photograph in RAW format so i can edit in case i run into these sorts of problems again.

I will try a few prints as soon as i can find some nice A3 paper. I took some okish looking pictures when i was in Turkey with a Fujifilm finepix S3500 series, and the prints were amazing.

I'm an envious person at the best of times. I was in the printers last week and someone came to collect some large format prints, and they were sharp and super clear.
A lot of the pictures i've taken have been bland looking or noisy. But i've got 3 months to try my hardest to perfect that.

Thanks again for all the help and advice