[Banded Drake]

OK heres the deal ,

I have had 4 people ask me if i do weddings , and i think yall know how i feal about them . LOL . But i feal like i am missing out on some money . I really want my new camera to " pay for its self " if you know what i mean .

What i would really like to know is what equiptment do i HAVE to have ? The first thing that i know that i need is a good backup camera . I still have my film camera so i think that would work if I needed it . But what else ? Lenses , Flashes , and what nots . I dont have a lot of money to spend but i would really like to be able to start looking and maybe getting things one by one .


Thanks ......... Shawn

[shuttertalk]

External flashgun is a must have... I covered a whole wedding with one of those and the kit lens. Not that I'm recommending that, but just saying that it can be done.

Some longer fast lenses will help in the ceremony so that you can take photos without intruding too much in the proceeidngs...

[Schellamo]

I have been told that you need a back up of every peice of equiptment- i.e back up flash gun, lens, memory card, battery, and obviously camera.

I'm in a similar boat, and unsure whether I want to go down that path yet or not.

[matthew saville]

To be perfectly honest, the one thing that you absolutely MUST have in order to shoot weddings for money is not something that can be bought with money- Experience and confidence.

The two extremes are: Having all the equipment in the world but having no mastery of it, and having ultra-low-budget equipment yet knowing it like the back of your hand. At ten out of ten weddings I would choose the latter, and indeed that is basically where I stand right now.

The first step in getting into professional wedding photography should NOT be to go out and purchase a complete "system", much rather the first step begins long before most "system" purchases. It starts with shooting a couple friends' weddings for free, from the sidelines while a real pro worries about guaranteeing good results. Shooting a few free weddings will lead to a few experiential realizations, hopefully including the realization that your on-board flash is just not enough. Or quite often, the realization that an f/1.8 or f/1.4 prime lens would really do the trick in a particular low light condition...

Then you shoot a couple more friend's weddings, and ask for no payment other than to cover rental etc. costs, maybe for a hotshoe flash and maybe a 50mm f/1.8 or 85mm f/1.8 lens, or if your high ISO performance is good enough you can get away with an f/2.8 zoom. All systems have a 70-200 f/2.8 or similar lens, and in Nikon, Canon and Sigma's case I can vouch that you simply MUST rent them at least once.

After a few of those weddings, you begin to care less about some flashes or lenses, and wish you could own one particular flash or lens. NOW it's time to ante-up and buy a few things!

My current system consists of two D70 bodies, a Tokina 17mm f/3.5 prime, a Nikon 24-85 f/3.5-4.5 AFS, and a Sigma 150mm f/2.8 prime. Yeah I know, far from ideal. There's also the SB600 and Lightsphere, which I just recently bought.

In 2007 I hope to have a Tokina 16-50 f/2.8 DX and a Sigma 50-150 f/2.8 DC, which essentially would cover all bases except a fast-apeture prime, which I'll hawk Ebay for, hopefully an f/1.4 instead of an f/1.8, since Nikon's high ISO isn't the best... I also don't see any real need to upgrade my D70 bodies to D80's or D200's yet; my experience helped me realize that good lenses far out-prioritize good bodies, and if I could cover 16-150mm f/2.8 with just two lenses, I would be in heaven...

But I've shot weddings with only a popup flash and one camera body, too. And I've also shot weddings with so much equipment around my neck (rented and borrowed) that I felt like a pack mule. I shot my first few weddings for a friend for free, then I shot a few friend's weddings for just a couple hundred dollars to cover my expenses plus maybe a new memory card or something, and finally I started charging set rates for different basic packages. Now, after just a few years of well-used and learned from practice, I am getting business from complete strangers and charging four digits instead of three... Next year I hope to make it as much of a career as I can...

In the end, the only advice I can give is to gain experience. Shoot one or two weddings for free or almost for free, and make sure the weddings are for very close and very forgiving friends, and then decide if you're ready to "make your equipment pay for itself"...

If you just gear up and jump in before you're ready, it will harm your reputation and career opportunities in the long run. Do it the right way though, and after a few years you will have people INSISTING that they need to have YOU as their photographer!

Take care and good luck,
-Matt-

PS- If you know anyone in the Orange County area who is gettimg married and needs an affordable photographer, directing them my way is rewarded with fine art nature prints! (That's my last tip- Always ask for referrals, and "bribery" is very acceptable! Now you know all my secrets...)

[shuttertalk]

Great tips Matt... and good to see you again!

What have you been up to?

[Wedding Shooter]

Hi Shawn,

First take Matt's advice and then consider the following:

A lot depends on your style, whether you prefer primes or zooms and what you see as your upgrade path (are you going to go full frame in the future). Lens choice should really be based on what bodies you will buy in the future.

All that said you really need to cover the following ranges (equivilent to 35mm lengths):

Something wide - I use the 17-40 4 L (a 10-22 EF-S might suit, but will not work on your film body). You will use this for interiors of limo's and bridal preparation shots in tight bathrooms, etc...

A regular 24-70 2.8 zoom (you shouldn't compromise on this as it will be your workhorse). If you can't afford it at least get a 50 1.8 or a 35 2 (on your crop body).

A 70-200 2.8 (I notice sigma have just released a new model that is about that range on a crop sensor).

I really think you should get at least a 350D as a backup so that your lenses will all work the same and you can use two cameras at once with a different lens on each body.

Two flashes (one as a back-up - but can be used on second body).

Two of these (one for each flash):

http://www.dembflashdiffusers.com/

Enough compact flash to allow you to take 1000 pictures in RAW.

Extra batteries for the bodies and flash.

A set of reflectors.

A tripod and remote cable release plus a macro lens (the canon 24-70L doubles as this) for close-ups of rings, etc...

A contract - I can send you one of mine if you like (of course you should get it checked by a lawyer - but as long as you have something that can be signed by the couple and yourself).

Work out your costs and make a decent profit - if they are serious about asking you to do the wedding they should be willing to compensate you.

If you get those 4 weddings with a decent deposit up front you should be well on your way to paying for that gear.

Feel free to ask for any more details.

Cheers,

Chris

[matthew saville]

Great tips Matt... and good to see you again!

What have you been up to?

Hi Shuttertalk, I know it's been a while... And, as you might gather from my reply, I've been "up to" a lot lately. I still work part/full time in construction, but I'm doing about 2-3 misc. photography jobs each month; everything from fine art nature photography exhibits to children's plays to full-blown weddings... It's a busy life! Hopefully my "real" job will support me until I can get a degree and get a career going in some aspect of photography. I just don't know if it will be shooting cave jungles for NG or shooting Newport Beach weddings, lol...

Take care,
-Matt-

PS- I see that Chris has given all the necessary equipment recommendations. Once again I'll stress that plenty of experience should come before the big salary. But when the time comes, don't be afraid to charge what you think you're worth! Also, be sure to keep everything legal. No bootleg copies of Photoshop, no tax-free income, etc. etc. You gotta be legit!

[Paul.R.Lindqvist]

Some great advice here, all i can say is that i truly admire those who sucessfully shoot weddings. Takes a certain breed. Im afraid im not even close to measure up.

/Paul L.

[Toad]

Nice to see you again Matt - its been a long time. Good advice as well.

[Banded Drake]

Great Advice Matt and W S ,

I know that i am not truelly ready for "serious" weddings . I do not have near enough experence to make any real money . And i really appreciate everything you said Matt . To be honest i have told everyone that ask me if i shoot weddings , that i have shot only one wedding and i really dont want to shoot them right now. There is just so much that i need to learn about weddings and photography that im afraid i will get in over my head . But i also told them that i would be happy to go and shoot as a 2nd photographer and all they pay for is the prints ( as long as the primary photographer is ok with that ) . So i can get the experence that i want/ need and not be the only one there LOL . Most of them were fine with that and have looked into other photogs and that was that .

Thanks for yalls time, i have learned a lot ....... Shawn

P S , Thanks for the offers W S , i may take you up on them in the near future .......

[matthew saville]

Hi Toad! I know, long time no see. I was surving google for something photography releated and shuttertalk came up and I thought "hey, I know that forum!!" so I thought I'd drop by...

Shawn, I think you have the right idea. Either shoot from the sidelines while a pro does the real shooting, or shoot for friends who simply cannot afford any wedding photographer at all, so it's either you or nothing. That's how I started, with friends who weren't going to be able to afford a real pro anyway, so anything better than nothing made them happy...

Again I'll recommend that you ask them to help you out with renting some pro equipment. That's the best way to figure out what gear you really and truly need. Rent a flash, rent a flash bracket and sync cord, rent a couple different lenses, and so on and so forth. (but not all at one wedding, otherwise you'll run them a pretty steep bill!) When I first started doing weddings, I tried the old Nikon 80-200 f/2.8 lens, (sharp like a razor!) the new 70-200 f/2.8 VR, (VR helps a little but I'd do without it if I could save a considerable ammount, f/2.8 is what matters the most to me) and even the 80-400 f/4.5-5.6 VR. (slow apeture and slow focus, definitely not an event/ low-light lens!) And that's just the telephoto lenses. I also rented more mid-range and wide-angle lenses than I can list... Now, I know exactly what I want in an ideal setup, instead of purchasing simply based on reviews and advice. Of course I used the reviews and advice, but only after I had an idea of what I needed and a lot of questions to ask. So go out and try some pro gear!

Take care,
-Matt-

[adam]

Matthew Saville!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!