[Rufus]

OK, fancy a challenge? This has absolutely done my head in tonight.

I've just been asked to join the intercessory prayer group, which, on a rota system intones ( ), prayers on Sundays..... Ok so far. I have no fear of speaking to groups of any size, and no problem with the idea Percy...... Sorry, I meant Per Se.

Anyhow, here's the rub:

Jesus taught us to pray that God's will be done. That means seeking God's purposes. So, why do we pray for peace in places in which we expect unrest according to the Bible? Why do we pray for divine intervention regarding the Biblically inevitable?
How can I go up to the front and pray for peace between two diametrically opposed religions? Only the infamous "one-world, and one-size-fits-all" religion can do that, and that's the LAST thing we want!

Any intercessors out there? Please explain this to me! :o

[Cailean]

I'm not sure which two religions you are referring to that are diametrically opposed... The three major world religions (Christianity, Judaism & Islam - often called the Abrahamic Faiths) have a common biblical history (Abraham) and are merely different paths of the same journey.

Having said that, I, too, struggle with intercessory prayer. I have been told that while God does not bend to human pleading, he (she, it, whatever your preference) likes to hear us ask... Huh? That doesn't sound right to me...

Some have said to me that it is cynical to say: Why bother asking God for things (peace, healing, etc.) when he already knows what we want/need and has already decided whether he will 'intercede'. I don't think it's cynical - what else are we to think? And why do we ask for intercession? Aren't we asking Him to intercede on Himself? That doesn't make much sense either...

If He is 'interceding' on our behalf, then there must be a third party... Evil? Perhaps... Human fallibility? Perhaps.... Is there a difference? Perhaps not....

If we pray for healing then we must be assuming that either Evil or Humans (or both) have created the condition (OUTSIDE of God's will) which needs healing . God cannot 'fix' everything that is born out of human weakness - that defeats the purpose of the tree of Knowledge, etc.

I hope you weren't hoping for a nice succinct conclusion to this rambling ... I think I will have to come back and re-visit this after some cranial percolating.

[Rufus]

Thanks for addressing this Cailean. It's a very difficult one. I understand prayer for a person, and feel that our sin and freewill can cause problems which we reasonably may ask God to correct, but where the Bible states "this will happen", it will. Prayer wont change that.
Part of the prayer Jesus taught us is "THY will be done", not our ideas, fancies or wants, no. God's will. Period.

Incidentally, you said; " ..........are merely different paths of the same journey".

I have to disagree there, but let's save that for another thread.

[de_axeman]

I've always wondered about the same thing Roo, about why we sometimes pray for things which I suspect is not in accordance with God's will and then wonder why God never answered our prayers... Guess that's why we're human and He's God.

By the way, who/what is your prayer group interceding for? I find it curious, and I suspect this is why you're uncomfortable with the idea, that your group is 'interceding' for two religions to reach some sort of consensus? Dunno - mebbe I'm reading your post wrong...

Cailean, with regards to your post, I used to wonder about why God (who knows everything) wants us to ask him to do things (heal, etc) via prayer. Well, here's my take:

God gave man free will. He cannot then intervene in our lives without us first asking him to (prayer). Doing so would negate the very principle of giving us free will in the first place. That's why we cannot blame God for the world's problems like hunger, crime, etc because they are the result of man exercising his free will. In order for Him to act, we need to ask Him. Jesus did not go about healing people without their permission (unless they were dead? ). In most instances I can remember (the 10 lepers, the woman with the issue of blood, the blind man, etc), they all cried out to Jesus FIRST before he acted to heal them.

Also, I think we need to be clear what we mean by 'intercession', which is generally defined as acting/asking/mediating on someone's behalf. The Bible does say that Jesus intercedes on our behalf, which, in the context of the Holy Trinity, Jesus (the Son) prays for us to God (the Father). When we intercede for someone, we plead their case on their behalf to God, eg. when we pray for a friend who's in financial difficulty, etc. Jesus definitely does NOT pray to Evil, nor do Christians.

Your post touches on the topics of sin, and man's part in it, and how it affects the world, etc, which I would like to ramble on too for a bit, but I'll leave it for another post.

[Rufus]

08:41

Overslept
:o
Bump

[shuttertalk]

I think there are definitely cases where in the Bible, man has pleaded with God and God has averted His decision or wrath (Abraham and Sodom and Gomorrah is one example, lots of examples with Moses). Now we believe the God is the same yesterday, today and forever, so if He listens and cares about his children, then He too is inclined to listen to us.

Personally, when interceeding, I usually pray for two things (1) God's intervention and (2) God's wisdom or instruction on how to act in a particular situation. Somtimes in the midst of intercessory prayer - the Holy Spirit instructs you on specifically what to pray for as well.

[de_axeman]

Somtimes in the midst of intercessory prayer - the Holy Spirit instructs you on specifically what to pray for as well.

Yes he does!! And sometimes I just dismiss it as silly and then someone else prays what God told me to pray, and I kick myself...

[teddyfingers]

Got this definition off of Crosswalk.com

Easton's Bible Dictionary

Intercession of Christ

Christ's priestly office consists of these two parts, (1) the offering up of himself as a sacrifice, and (2) making continual intercession for us.

When on earth he made intercession for his people (Luke 23:34; John 17:20; Hebrews 5:7); but now he exercises this function of his priesthood in heaven, where he is said to appear in the presence of God for us (Hebrews 9:12,24).

His advocacy with the Father for his people rests on the basis of his own all-perfect sacrifice. Thus he pleads for and obtains the fulfilment of all the promises of the everlasting covenant (1 John 2:1; John 17:24; Hebrews 7:25). He can be "touched with the feeling of our infirmities," and is both a merciful and a faithful high priest (Hebrews 2:17,18; 4:15,16). This intercession is an essential part of his mediatorial work. Through him we have "access" to the Father (John 14:6; Ephesians 2:18; 3:12). "The communion of his people with the Father will ever be sustained through him as mediatorial Priest" (Psalms 110:4; Revelation 7:17).

Easton's Bible Dictionary

Intercession of the Spirit

(Romans 8:26,27; John 14:26). "Christ is a royal Priest (Zechariah 6:13). From the same throne, as King, he dispenses his Spirit to all the objects of his care, while as Priest he intercedes for them. The Spirit acts for him, taking only of his things. They both act with one consent, Christ as principal, the Spirit as his agent. Christ intercedes for us, without us, as our advocate in heaven, according to the provisions of the everlasting covenant. The Holy Spirit works upon our minds and hearts, enlightening and quickening, and thus determining our desires 'according to the will of God,' as our advocate within us. The work of the one is complementary to that of the other, and together they form a complete whole.", Hodge's Outlines of Theology.


God has basically three answers to prayer.
1) yes
2) no
3) wait

Jesus told us to pray for the peace of Jerusalem. It is a command from him, and we should do it whether we understand it or not. Our relationship with him should compel us to do what he ask out of love. Besides that he is God and our obedience is required of us and he is worthy of it because he is God.

I would like to say also that God's ways are so far beyond us that It supprieses me that I understand as much as I do. Or do I .

Teddy

[samuel]

i would like to propose another way of looking at prayer .. especially
intercessory prayer ...i hope this would also somehow help us answer the question "why we need to pray when God already knows what we need ..."

we often think that the only person benefitting is the person we are praying for ...
i realized that when i pray for someone, i too benefit in the act ... prayer is first
and foremost supposed to make us holy. what we ask for i think are just fringe
benefits (to have a car, to get promoted, good health) .. also you will notice
that in the Lord's prayer (which i would like to call "The Prayer of The Best"), all 7 petitions of Christ are spiritual 1) holy be thy name, 2) thy kingdom come,
3) thy will be done ... 4) give us our daily bread (for me this is more than the
bread to sustain our physical life, but Christ Himself (i am the bread from heaven)) 5) forgive us our sins ... 6) do not lead us into temptation, 7) deliver us from evil

If prayer is supposed to make us holy, it is therefore also supposed to make us love our neighbor ("In the end, three things remain - faith, hope and love, but the greatest of all is love." "Love one another as i have loved you." The act of prayer is first and foremost an act of love. Though God knows what we need, we need to pray because we ourselves need to love. And when we pray or do works of charity for others without expecting anything in return, we receive the greatest gift of all - the sharing in the divine nature of the Father - i.e. perfect love - a love that does not expect anything in return. If we share in his nature, we are fulfilling our ultimate destiny - becoming a true child of God.

hope this helps ...

[Rufus]

Marvellous.

Thank you.